NBA 2014-15 Thread

[AKbruin]

Yea, they were saying he just got back and he's not his old self yet, but wait until next year.

I think Danno's points are that (1) losing, in isolation, does not necessarily mean a particular player isn't great because (2) winning a championship demands more than just having/being an all-time great player. MJ needed to time to recondition himself in 1995. Lebron needs a team whose second-best player isn't JR Smith.

And, anyway, if championships were all that mattered, Bill Russell is indisputably the best ever and Robert Horry is better than Jordan. And Derek Fisher is five times better than Jerry West (1 of 9 in Finals appearances).

Context (one's teammates, competition, etc.) matters.

[digitaldeath]

REDACTED

[54-46]

I hope Love goes to Lakers. Would love to see how he reacts to Kobe.

[Al Gore-Tex]

I'd like to see a Venn diagram of Lebron haters and 911 Truthers, climate-change deniers, birthers, anti-vaxers, and other segments of society who hold vociferous opinions on topics despite reason and all available evidence. I suspect significant overlap.

(1) Let's just get this out of the way: Falling short in a comparison with Jordan, the greatest basketball player ever, means very little. In fact, the moment you even suggest that somebody isn't as good as Jordan, the fact of the comparison acknowledges that the somebody compared is an all-time great. We don't compare players like, say, Carmelo Anthony to Jordan. Also, I've never heard any legitimate analyst claim that Lebron is better than Jordan.

(2) Without Lebron, last year's relatively healthy Cavs failed to make the playoffs in a weak Eastern Conference. With Lebron, this year's injury-riddled Cavs team came within 2 wins of a championship against an historically great Warriors team.

(3) Lebron lead the Finals in points, assists, rebounds, and minutes played. Google "Lebron stats finals" to see a laundry list of articles explaining how amazing Lebron was.

(4) Lebron's teammates were Shumpert, JR Smith, Thompson, Mosgov, Dellevedova, Shawn Marion, James Jones, Mike Miller. While these guys were damned good on defense, they are, as a squad, fantastically bad on offense. None of them would be starters on the Warriors and most of them wouldn't even make the team. Without Lebron, I don't think this particular group of people would win more than 15 games in a season. It's a testament to Lebron's passing that he averaged so many assists in the Finals passing to this group. In fact, I don't think you could substitute any player in the league for Lebron and have gotten as far as the Cavs did.

(5) Lebron quit? Again, he led in minutes, points, rebounds, assists, and usage rate. His natural and preferred role is as a playmaker and passer, not a prolific isolation scorer. He changed his game for this series (and the Hawks series) because it gave his team the best opportunity to win. He also shoulder a heavier load than any other NBA player in history. I have no idea what more he could have done.

(6) Lebron's skills? (a) He's probably the best passer in the game. (b) He's also got one of the highest basketball IQs in the NBA--he makes the right play so much more often than not. (c) Along these lines, he always makes his teammates better. See #4. (d) He's a good midrange shooter and decent 3 point shooter. (You know his 3pt% is higher than Jordan's, right?). (e) He's the best transition player in the game, which unfortunately we didn't get to see much in the Finals because of the Cavs' roster and game plan. (f) He's a very good rebounder. (g) His turnover to usage/assist rate is fantastic. (h) When he needs to be, he's one of, if not the best defensive players in the game.

In sum, you may not like Lebron, but when you say he isn't good, it's says more about you than it does about Lebron.

Wow, sounds like you must watch a lot of ESPN. Bottom line: Bron Bron is the BBOAT. Biggest bitch of all time. Flopping bastard. He would've been bloodied and beaten by the defenses in the 80's and 90's.

[Beery]

Um, he did. Often.

You know he meant in the finals. You might mention the teams mike lost to in the first round. Legendary teams. It's what molded it him to be ultimate big game, big shot, best player there will ever be.

[Vt-Freeheel]

Pricks setting patio pavers at a house I'm building [hired by owners] denting my truck and not saying anything.

[PB]

Pricks setting patio pavers at a house I'm building [hired by owners] denting my truck and not saying anything.

So …. you're saying Lebron dinged your truck?!?!?

Sweeeeeeet!

[El Chupacabra]

So …. you're saying Lebron dinged your truck?!?!?

Bullshit. I saw that play, and Vt-F's truck totally flopped. LeBron barely touched it.

[The Dad]

dad

bottom line is he sucks at ball handling, cant shoot and cant play the 5 spot

u crazy as f

Thanks for your studied exegesis. Your 500th variant of the same ad hominem attack did what the previous 499 had failed to do. I am convinced.

I'll be sorry to see Lee go. It's the wise move, but Lee has been a great Warrior. His passing and game in the post is wonderful to watch. He's also sneakily a tough player, even if his defense sucks. And he handled his demotion with aplomb.

Hear, hear. As a recovering Knicks fan, it'll be doubly hard to see him leave my adopted team.

[digitaldeath]

so many MJ naysayers

how simple minded are thee


keep apologizing and lionizing lebron

he sucks

he lost

he cried

[digitaldeath]

http://www.cbssports.com/nba/eye-on-...els-constantly

[The Dad]

I hate summer.

[digitaldeath]

blow it out your ass

bandwagoneer

pick a team and stick with it

[TahoeJ]

Jackson is losing it... what the Warriors and Houston and Atlanta are doing is merely an offensive evolution from the triangle days that recognizes that it makes a lot more sense to shoot either close to the hoop or from behind the arc - and that long 2's are stupid.

But he's right about LeBron traveling all the time.

[digitaldeath]

^^^ yes and yes


but only jacking up 3 pointers like a scrub YMCA player is boring as shit, even when they go in

[AKbruin]

Arguing with DD:

DD: Conclusion!

Interlocutor: Conclusion is wrong because A, B, C, and D.

DD: Conclusion because X!

Interlocutor: X doesn't exist. Also, A, B, C, and D.

DD: Conclusion because Y!

Interlocutor: Y is empirically wrong. Don't forget A, B, C, and D.

DD: Conclusion because Z!

Interlocutor: You just made up Z. Again, A, B, C, and D.

DD: Conclusion!!!

[El Chupacabra]

"Both teams played hard."

[digitaldeath]

I said I was out of this thread, but you lebron lumpers keep dragging my back in!!!


It's not even debatable. Lebron totally sucks when it matters. He is whining baby that chokes and chokes and chokes.

He will never win again. He is burnt.

Everyone forgets last season so easily. Everyone forgets the Spurs domination of a better lebron team.

Lebron traded wiggins. He is an idiot.


Lebron has no fundamentals. He doesn't practice new moves.



And good lord....good god.... Posers are hating on MJ in this thread. Unreal.

[BmillsSkier]

I'll admit it, I'm back to being a LeeeeBron fan. Hated him for years, but everything he's done since coming home has been pretty awesome. Unlike anything I've seen from other pro athletes, much less the biggest name in their respective sport.

Yeah, they came up short this year, but the Cavs were entertaining as hell, and I look forward to watching them next year.



All In.

[digitaldeath]

What about last year?


What has he done that's so amazing?

[BmillsSkier]

Returning home for one, reconciling with a bitter owner, putting his team on his back during the playoffs, making everyone around him better... It's all in all been a pretty amazing season for them.

[TahoeJ]

LeBron as a player is great, obviously, and DD just give it a rest. I don't think anyone is saying he's better than MJ. You make some valid points but you're also glossing over a ton of good things. He's had some absolute monster games in the playoffs, like that game against Boston a few years back where he just went crazy. Now... LeBron as a quasi-GM and coach is horrible. He seems to believe that all you need is a few all star caliber players (eating up 90% of the payroll) as opposed to a squad with depth. Give me 2 all stars and 7 quality players over 3 all stars and a bunch of cheap / minimum players every single time. Granted, it did work twice because he and Wade and Bosh were in their primes, but once all of that mileage added up the last two seasons he's run out of gas after playing 40+ minutes a game all the time. If he wasn't in the weak Eastern conference he couldn't have just taken off 2 weeks in the middle of the season like he did.

Everyone is saying the Warriors were lucky to not be injured, and while that's true to some degree, people also aren't giving them any credit for that. Anyone can get injured on a dumb luck play, but it's also far more likely to happen when a player is tired or getting worn down. The Warriors kept their guys fresh all season long so them staying healthy was more than just luck, it was taking advantage of their depth. I wonder if GM LeBron understands that or if he's just too stubborn.

[fool]

I'm with ya Bmills - though I never disliked him (probably helps I never saw "The Decision") - I found myself rooting for him to win, and I think this article summarized why: http://grantland.com/the-triangle/20...is-armageddon/

For the first time in his career, LeBron, a villain just five years ago when he left Cleveland for Miami, has become a sympathetic figure. He’s been so incredible that anybody else but him winning the championship is unfair. I understand that the universe is not a fair place, but this is just too far. And so now here I am, in a bizarre spot I’d never have imagined I’d be: LeBron’s overwhelming greatness has pushed me beyond just rooting for him, and now I’m rooting against the Warriors, possibly the most unstoppably likable team in the NBA since the 2005 Phoenix Suns, and I’m also rooting against Steph Curry, the most unstoppably likable professional basketball player I have ever seen in my life.

Read the whole article though, it's great. With gifs of Curry as well.

[digitaldeath]

i just dont appreciate all the sycophants

all lebron wants is FAME - he stole the limelight from the spurs last year and appears to have stolen the limelight again as everybody just talking lebron and hardly anybody talking about why he lost and why he sucks

he has 3 moves and NO heart

he is a good facilitator but a lousy scorer - if you the best in the world you better be a top tier scorer
scoring 40 points is not impressive when your team runs iso plays all day and you steamroll people to the hoop, often missing layups'

his "touch" is garbage


lest we forget his arrogance!

[Bromontana]

ain't no MJ

Air Jordan ftw